Episode Transcript
[00:00:13] Speaker A: Welcome to Apkudo's new podcast, a series about trends in the connected device industry. We'll be talking to players up and down the supply chain. My name is Allison Mitchell and I'm the vp of sustainability at Appcodo and the proud host of this new live podcast program covering industry trends, customer journeys, sustainability topics and more. We always like to invite folks to share with us their ideas for topics or guests, so if you have any of those, please shoot me an email at allison dot mitchellptcudo.com. and we're gonna start today's discussion by diving in with our guest speaker and then we'll follow with questions at the end. So if you have questions as you go, please type those into the q and a box and we'll get to those at the end. Our guest today is Grant Cushney, senior director of technical delivery management. Welcome, Grant.
[00:01:06] Speaker B: Thank you, Allison. Hello everyone. Looking forward to the discussion.
[00:01:09] Speaker A: Well, everyone in the connected device ecosystem has a very specific focus when it comes to new product launches. So we're going to discuss that and focus on what the app Kudo team does to prepare for a new product launch, what original equipment manufacturers, or oems, are focused on, and then also what carriers are focused on in the lead up to these new product launches. So, Grant, today I'd like to talk about what the Appcudo team does behind the scenes to get prepared for a new product introduction. And before we dive into that, I'd love to hear about your background, because you've seen this process from several angles and you understand all the unique perspectives and have the expertise that guides the Apkudo team beyond reactivity and into productivity.
[00:01:56] Speaker B: My background is somewhat diverse, but you will see the connection as I go through this. I graduated with an electrical engineering degree, mainly developing hardware and software subsystems. The first 24 years was actually spent in South Africa or southern Africa, between two countries, Rhodesia, which is now Zimbabwe and South Africa. So I finished my graduation in South Africa and decided that it was time for a new adventure. So I decided to go and see what it was like in the northern hemisphere. So I moved over to the UK, joined a company there in the first week that I arrived, and that was my first introduction to automation. And that was all around testing broadband services. This was actually before cell phones were around. So we were testing broadband networks through an automated system and providing reports and the ability to predict failures. And so that was my first introduction, mainly doing a lot of software development. I then moved over to the US and the company actually asked me to run their engineering organization, which was based in Chicago. So I spent a number of years actually building that organization and taking it to the point where we could now take that and spin that off as a division. And I eventually sold that business. And then I decided to go and look at the startup world. So I took my passion and said, you know what, I really like to be able to deliver product and capability, but also be closely connected with the customer. And so I moved into the startup world actually in the cellular side of it, more around secure communications. And so that was all around developing secure operating systems so that the government enterprises could be using cell phones in areas where you probably do not want to use a cell phone. So I stayed with them and really looked at the ability to deliver in short bursts updates to products and capability. But it was also important because, again, your cell phones are changing, operating systems are changing, hardware is changing. And so I ran pretty much the operations there and the engineering team. Then I was recruited out of there into Apkudo, and that was five years ago. I still haven't been back to South Africa to actually go and live. So I'm still on my adventure.
[00:04:41] Speaker A: That's awesome. Well, that sounds like quite a journey, and you've seen it from some unique perspectives within the industry. So I'm thrilled to be able to have this conversation with you today and talk about this topic. Here we are at the start of Q four, and this is significant timing for two reasons. First, Apple's highly anticipated new device launch usually kicks off in Q four, and other oems usually follow suit due to the holiday season, wanting to take advantage of that opportunity to drive sales. And second, a new device launch creates a ton of excitement and a sense of urgency among the buyers and consumers in this space to upgrade their devices. And so companies will start experiencing a surge in device trade ins because of these new devices hitting the market around the holidays. I would love to hear you talk about how this timing is an important time for what you and your group do right now.
[00:05:40] Speaker B: Right. And the important piece about new device rollouts and the factors that influence the returns as well as the new introduction impacts many areas of industry. Right. This impacts the carriers. It impacts the OEM. It also impacts the return processor who is going to be processing devices that are coming in as part of a campaign that has been put in place by the carriers. So there are three phases here. So you've got the OEM who is developing the product and the hype.
Then you've got the carrier who wants to take and move into that distribution side of the world, and then you've also got to deal with the returns that are part of that whole process.
So when you introduce a new device, you've got new features which could imply new hardware, and it also will be in most cases linked to a new operating system update. And so all of these factors influence all of those people in the industry, the carriers, the oems, the processors, as well as retailers.
[00:07:07] Speaker A: Yeah. And from somebody that's maybe just a consumer or a buyer, it seems like a simple process, but it sounds like there's a lot of preparation behind the scenes to get ready for these new devices and, and their respective operating systems sort of being out there in the world so that it's seamless essentially. So what does Appcudo focus on in this lead up to a new product launch?
[00:07:30] Speaker B: Our focus is ensuring that the automation that is in place because most of the returns process is now governed by automation. In a lot of cases, if you are handling 10, 15, 20,000 devices per day, you have to have automation. Otherwise you cannot scale to be able to deal with that. And now when you introduce a new device or a new operating system or an update to an operating system, the difficulty comes because the OEM is not going to share advanced information due to confidentiality. The only thing we will see from the OEM is we will see an operating system update which will normally come out of prior to the device because they want to make sure that everybody has upgraded to the latest version, but the new device is going to rely on those operating system changes. So from a new product introduction perspective, we have to be following industry and we have to be in partnership with the carriers and the returns process. And so the important piece here is that when the OEM releases a new version of a device or a beta software release, we need to make sure that we start the preliminary testing as soon as we get that information. We need to start from a NPI perspective or new product introduction perspective. So I have a dedicated team that focuses on new product introduction. So we are watching the market. We are looking for those software releases. We will test those software releases as soon as they are available in a beta format, so we get an early view of what that looks like and also how that is going to impact the automation systems that are in place. Because from the returns perspective, they want this to be transparent. In other words, when a new device comes in, they want it to follow the same process that they have been doing for all the other devices. If they have to do something different.
This is now a deviation from their process which adds cost, because now you are breaking the automation cycle and you having to go into some hand inspection or hand testing. And so this is why my MPI team is focused on getting the automation systems as quickly as possible to be able to accept the new hardware as well as new operating systems.
[00:10:15] Speaker A: Well, it sounds like some pretty specialized knowledge is required for that. And it sounds like your team has that and you're collaborating with a variety of different players in the industry. Who specifically, in terms of the types of industry players are you collaborating with you and your team in this lead up to a new product introduction?
[00:10:36] Speaker B: Yeah, we mainly collaborate with the carriers and their returns processing providers. Sometimes a carrier will have their own returns processing, others will have that through a third party. And this is important because the carrier is creating a path for the consumer to be able to move from what they have today to what's new tomorrow, and they are generating campaigns. And this drive we need to take and ensure that the information that we have early on is calibrated into our machines. So for an example, a new iPhone comes out, it's probably got different dimensions, it's probably got cameras and the bezel around the camera that is different to all the other devices. So our machines need to understand that. And so we have to teach our machines that this is a new device and this is how you handle it. So not only do we do the dimensional checks and physically enable the robotics to be able to handle the device, but we also have to deal with functionality. Because now if there is a new type of camera, or if something has moved, a button has moved or changed, we need to teach the robotics that now the button is no longer here, right? It is now at point b. It's the ability to be able to take the dimensional information as well as the functional change and the relationship with the carrier as well as the returns provider is extremely important here, because not only do the machines have to be calibrated and run with a new device, but there are other pieces that need to be done. For instance, the screen size has changed.
When we test, you're looking at things like as the screen has changed. So therefore my display testing is going to be different or my touch testing is going to be different.
But what we've done is we've built into our machines that we can rapidly adapt that through software programming to enable us to take that device and run it through the process as if it was same as everything else. So the collaboration starts really from understanding where the OEM is, but it's also very closely working with the carriers to understand what is their campaign, because their campaigns, they want to measure the effect of the campaign.
So I'll give you an example. There may be a new flagship device that's coming out and the carrier says, I would like to, let's say, x percent of my subscriber base I'm going to bring in, and I would like them to have the ability to move to this new device. And that collaboration gives us the ability to actually also be able to identify a return that came in based on a campaign. So this again is leveraging that connection between our systems. Remember, our systems are for the full receiving and the full testing capability. So by leveraging the data that we collect from those devices, that just enhances our relationship with the carrier as well as the returns provider.
[00:14:10] Speaker A: Well, that's really interesting. The collaboration and communication is playing a significant role in this process. With the launch of a new device and the promotion around these device upgrade opportunities, I imagine that this is, this does drive a lot of trade ins, which then that routes these older devices to returns processors. They have a unique role in this process.
What is that role and how does that role inform what their priorities are in this phase of a new product launch?
[00:14:47] Speaker B: Right. So the returns processor, if we look at what their key objectives are, they are mainly focused on the ability to quickly and accurately receive a return device. In other words, verify that they've received the device that the carrier said was going to come back to them. Verify that it is in the appropriate package. Verify that it is a supported device. The device then needs to be tested to verify that the hardware is functional. It then needs to go through grading.
Is this a grade a device? In other words, there's no scratches or cracks. Is it grade b, grade circumental? All of these pieces are important to the carrier because the carrier is the person who's defining the routing of that device in accordance with their process, because there may be some devices that they are going to push to liquidation, and so that's going to get routed in a different way to a device that's going to go to repair or put back into the chain. So the returns processor, the key vision for them is there's a new device coming. I would like to use exactly the same process as I have today because I have an agreement with that carrier on how to process and the financials already agreed. So the transparency of the ability to be able to just put a new device on your system and run it through, and you have the same cost base. This is extremely important. And also the second piece is they don't want to have too much delay because as soon as, if there's delay in getting the new product introduced, that means that all of those new devices that come back now, those new devices, there will be a portion of them that will come back. It's small in the beginning, but things like buyer's remorse and other factors, you will get some of those devices coming back. And the return processor needs to understand how they're going to deal with those. If that can be put into their automation system, that's perfect. And it's ideal.
If it has to go through a manual process, it just adds cost.
That's a problem for the returns process.
[00:16:54] Speaker A: Well, we've talked a lot about the hardware that's coming through in a new product launch, but you also had mentioned earlier that there's often operating system updates that come along with these new devices.
How does your team prepare for those changes?
[00:17:09] Speaker B: Right, so operating system changes are interesting, right? Because there's one set which is the adapted ability to be able to control the new hardware on a new device, right? So if there's a new camera, then there's a new piece of software that's sitting in their operating system to be able to talk to that camera. So that's one piece and that's normally connected to a particular device or model initially, although they will make that backward compatible. So there's that piece, there's a second piece where again, you're going to constantly see these dot releases, as I call it, like you see 17.0. Then you got 17.010,203. And what's important here is that as the OEM releases the software, we need to rapidly test its compatibility with the whole, the automation system. Because I'll give you an example.
There was a release, an iOS release of 17.0 that was put out. It was very close to the iPhone 15, and there were actually some significant issues with that operating system with respect to screens, freezing, applications, just quitting and things like that. And what the OEM did is they rapidly introduced another version. So you were to see, so I'm going back to when the 17.0 was dropped, 17.01, and two and three were dropped probably within about four weeks of each other. So what do you do with that? So we take the beta versions of those releases and we start testing the beta on our receiving side so we can understand that we can prep and have those devices ready to go through the automation, and then we will do testing of that beta release, as the beta releases are coming out and then when the official release comes out, we have to do that again. Now the reason why we look at the betas is it gives us an early indication. We need to see that is something fundamentally need to change within the automation process and therefore it gives us a headstock. And so each operating system, you've got to test it. You can't just assume there are a lot of issues that come up with various operating systems. That's why they put out Doc releases and maintenance releases just like every company does. But when you've got a system that's running 10, 15, 20,000 devices a day, how do you react to that change? You have to test it before and make sure that you are confident that you can process those devices with that new operating system.
[00:19:53] Speaker A: Yeah. So you're moving from being reactive to more proactive. You're preparing, being with the beta and then the final release, you're ready to implement that with the devices, the newer devices in the processing system. Can you talk a little bit more about this deviation monitoring, what that's about and what that allows you to do?
[00:20:20] Speaker B: Right. So whenever we have devices, any device that comes through the Apkudo platform, all those test results are kept for every single device. Right. And since we have a vast amount of data and a historical view of devices, the important piece here, and this is why it's connected to NPI, because you're introducing a new product. But how do I know, are there early failures happening on that new device or not? Or is there been something that has changed in the automation process or is there some changes that you need to do to preventive maintenance because you had a failure of an optical sensor or something like that. So this whole predictive piece is by taking the data we have, putting it through deviation monitoring. So I have a quality organization, they are doing this deviation monitoring across all of our lines. So in other words they can look for trends and identify that theres an issue on a particular line or with a particular piece of hardware on a device. So for instance, if they start seeing camera failures, starting to increase over the last 24 hours, we can react to that before there ends up being a major issue where now you've got to take a line down. So this deviation monitoring gives us a lot of insight into not only how our systems are operating from a yemenite, from a processing and automation perspective, but it also gives an indicator that if there are any other issues which could be related to the OEM or the hardware, we may be able to identify that sooner. And because that data, we provide that data into the carrier, so the carrier has access to all of this data and it is huge, this amount of data. And they can then through our API is actually do their own business analytics against that. So again, they have the ability to do analytics, but we also do the deviation monitoring ourselves. So that gives us the early indicator.
[00:22:43] Speaker A: What kind of additional analysis would a carrier do with that information we're providing from our own deviation monitoring? How would they further analyze that information?
[00:22:54] Speaker B: Right, right. So they can look, they can look at the, at the functional testing, they can also look at, they could look at life cycles. In other words, are they starting to see display failures for devices of a certain make model type after three years? Right. So there's an indicator that says, now my, the failure rate that we're seeing on returns, right. I is now I can put a time band on it and say we're going to start seeing more of these because we've got x 100,000 x million of these devices out there. We know after five years we're probably going to see more failures. So that's one example that seems like.
[00:23:39] Speaker A: Really valuable information that sort of gets at the relationship between what we're providing to device processors, carriers and how that could then inform the relationship that they have with oems.
[00:23:54] Speaker B: Correct. And remember, the carrier also has their own quality teams, right, that are looking at the ability for the returns provider to be able to provide accurate, consistent and repeatable results.
So they're also using that data, doing their own trend analysis to also measure the ability of the device processor to deliver against their one. So this data, which we use for deviation monitoring, is extremely useful also for the carrier as well as the returns processor.
[00:24:34] Speaker A: That's really interesting how that data really does enhance the ability for players in the industry to collaborate with each other, communicate in a proactive way what the challenges are, and get in front of it before it becomes a real risk, whether that's on time or cost, which are often the same thing. So can you talk a little bit more about this proactive approach and why that is the gold standard for the way that the app kudo team approaches this process?
[00:25:10] Speaker B: Right. So every time there's a new device, right, a new device, you can't assume it's just working, right? And so when a new device gets rolled out, right, it's got new features, new hardware, it has different colors, it has different cameras, it has different models, it could be a pro, a Promax, a plus, a mini, all of these are all variable and they've got different memory capacity.
There's a lot of variables here, and by us getting early information on that lets us get a head start. So, for instance, a lot of the dimensional information and the physical aspects, we can get that earlier, but the issue is that we're not going to get that device probably until or maybe a week or two. We might be able to see the device before we can actually do the physical work that is needed, if it's required on the robotics line. So again, that relationship with the carrier and the returns process are extremely important here, because when the OEM releases a new device, there are some leaks of information. And, yeah, we try and gather all of that information.
The most important thing for us to do, the confirmation and the recalibration of the robotics on a new device is for us to get those devices. And so the relationship we have with the returns provider as well as the carrier is extremely important, because the sooner they give us those devices, the faster we can actually turn around any updates that are needed. So the automation runs the same as it does for all the other device?
[00:26:59] Speaker A: Yeah, it's just interesting. There's a lot more complexity to the behind the scenes that goes into the preparation for a new device. You know, as a consumer, we get a brand new device and maybe we have to get a new case because the camera has moved, but it's pretty extensive in terms of the preparation that you and your team go through.
[00:27:19] Speaker B: Absolutely. And if you look at our robotic systems, we have very specific pieces of functionality that we're testing in the various cells from the display.
In other words, we're checking every single pixel on that display. Now, that display just suddenly changed in size. So therefore that machine needs to be calibrated to say, now you need to look wider and taller or smaller and shorter. So that calibration has to happen. Now when it goes to the touch sensing cell, where now it's looking with the touch capability, again, those same parameters need change. An example, another example is loudspeakers, cameras, they change positions. The bezel around the camera changes in shape. Now they've got three lenses, now they've got two lenses and a flash. And the device that actually picks up the phone and we drop it onto our inspection pedestal, that has to be either modified or changed, because now that Bezel has changed, so therefore that device won't fit on that pedestal. So again, so there's some quick work that we have to do to create a new base plate that can support that device. And that's why? We have a dedicated team here, and that team has a technical delivery manager that's associated with it. It has support engineering function and it has a connection into engineering. And we're continuously doing this because the faster we can get to market with a compatibility on that device, it helps everybody in the chain.
[00:29:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I can see that. Well, this has been great. I think you've really shed light on the complexity, the speed at which you have to work with the complexity. Those two overlapping sounds like quite a challenge, but you've clearly built the team that can do this. And I want to take a moment to encourage our audience since we are coming up on time, if they've come up with questions, to go ahead and put those in the chat before we wrap up here. And Grant, I guess I want to end on, you've shared a lot here. What would you say is sort of the key takeaway for folks, whether they're customers of ours or they are device processors, oems carriers, what is the key takeaway that they need to be thinking about when it comes to this new product introduction process?
[00:29:56] Speaker B: Right. So there are two factors that are important to, in fact the carrier and the returns processor. Right. First one, obviously ensuring your automation system is ready to take the new device. That is extremely important because otherwise you're going to be routing it to some manual process which is going to add costs. That's number one. Number two is not only are you introducing new product, but you need to be measuring to see how your returns process is functioning and look for trends that you need to change or change processes because you're seeing a trend that says maybe a particular line has a sensor issue or something like that. It's been able to use the tools we've developed for new product introduction to actually help measure that business.
[00:30:53] Speaker A: Well, let's see here. We've got a question. So given your experience, what do you think is the biggest oversight that companies make when preparing for new device launches?
[00:31:07] Speaker B: I think the oversight is understanding the intricacies of how that's going to impact your current operation. It's because, you know, there could be small changes that are made from a hardware or a software perspective that are going to impact your returns process. And the sooner we get access to devices and information, we can update that automation much faster so you don't have to deal with it from a manual perspective because we're coming up to a season now.
This is the busy season. We know there's going to be a big flagship device released next month and they are going to be campaigns that are going to have an impact on your returns.
You need to understand that that's going to happen as well as you're going to get some early devices that are going to be coming back on buyer's remorse. How are we going to deal with those?
Our MPI team today we spend time looking with the carriers. We know what's going to be coming out of and we're watching obviously the oems as well, and we like to get a head start on that, but everybody in the chain needs to get a head start on that, being able to process those devices.
[00:32:35] Speaker A: Yeah. And they would be reliant upon the automation to do that quickly and responsively. There's another aspect, I think, to Apkudo's system in particular, with the automation and the ability to anticipate and learn about these new devices quickly. How does that translate in terms of processing a newer device in one location and on one RFA line to the other customers or other places in the.
[00:33:11] Speaker B: System we have in our system? We are calibrating our lines now so that the inspection cells, the configurations are portable. So now let's say the iPhone 16 drops. We have done the qualification on a particular line for a particular customer, but those are now available, so those can be replicated on other lines. And so some of the issues with automation and the early automation systems is that it's great, you can create automation, but it only works on that line.
Line number two behaves slightly differently and they're different tolerances. Through engineering and software development, we've been able to do calibration that allows the configuration to be portable.
[00:34:03] Speaker A: So that makes it accessible rapidly everywhere. Yeah, very interesting. Well, this has been great. I'm excited. I mean, a new product launch is always exciting when you're in this space because there's new features and new capabilities with these devices. But now that I've seen the behind the scenes, I'm even more excited and it makes me want to check back in with your team after the new iPhone drops to see how things are going, see what insights were learned in the early days and leading up to if there were any, you know, anything unexpected and how you dealt with it. So I think, you know, we might have to have you back on the podcast after, after that process goes down.
[00:34:50] Speaker B: Absolutely right. You know, with all of our deviation monitoring and stuff, we can actually see how that initial calibration was. Are we seeing any issues that are there? Alison, I see there is one other question. Do we want to answer that question?
[00:35:03] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, that'd be great. What happens if my quality team identifies issues with devices that were not identified during automation?
[00:35:12] Speaker B: Okay, now my QA team has representation with all of our customers and kudos. QA team works very closely with the QA teams from the returns provider as well as the carrier. So there are times that they will do a manual inspection and they are seeing something that was not picked up in the automation. The great thing about that is we have the data, so we can actually go back to that exact device and say that ran through the automation on this date, on this time. And here are the results. We will then work with them to look at and understand why that wasn't picked up. And maybe it's a calibration issue or maybe it's another test that needs to be added.
So by having our QA team, which is tightly coupled to our NPI team, which is also tightly coupled to the QA teams of our customers, that allows a very smooth flow because the quality teams that from the carrier and from the returns provider are also trying to ensure that they have accurate results, they're repeatable and it meets the requirements or the SLA's. And so there's a constant back and forth to get to an agreement that, yes, okay, maybe one of our machines was not calibrated correctly. Now normally we would pick that up. In fact, in some situations you'll actually see through our deviation analysis and the carrier or the returns provider analysis of the data which we provide them will come up with the same conclusion. And by us collecting the data and doing deviation analysis, in a lot of cases we actually agree on why there's a discrepancy. And therefore, once you've agreed, therefore you can then create a plan of action and a plan of resolution.
[00:37:23] Speaker A: Well, it sounds like a lot that, you know, the transparency with the information and the free flow of information between the different partners and that collaboration is so critical for this valuable data to be utilized very quickly. And you are moving very quickly during this phase, I can tell. That is paramount to being able to deliver the value to the customers and to the customers customers in that relationship. So I really appreciate you breaking this down because like I said, it is way more complex than most people understand, especially from the consumer perspective or even, even the buyer who's just buying the devices for an enterprise, for example. So I appreciate this. This has been really great and I think we will have to put you back on here to talk about this in the, and the follow up to this new product launch that's coming up here in Q four so thank you so much for being part of this conversation today, Grant. And thank you for for tuning in to our attendees today. If folks have feedback or ideas on future topics or guests again, I want to encourage you to email me and share your thoughts. So thanks again, everyone, for joining and have a great day.
[00:38:42] Speaker B: Thank you everyone. Bye.
