Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to Second Sense. I'm your host, Allison Mitchell. Every episode we explore the complex supply chain behind the mobile device industry, from data driven decisions to sustainable solutions, and how smarter systems can give tech a second life.
Because when you trust your data, second life tech just makes sense.
So today on the podcast we have Josh Beasley, who is a partner in two different organizations that are partnered in the Powered by app Kudo ecosystem. So welcome to the podcast, Josh. Nice to have you here.
[00:00:39] Speaker B: Nice to be here. Thanks for having me.
[00:00:41] Speaker A: Allison, you represent two different organizations, both of which are in the Powered by appcuto ecosystem. So I kind of want to have you tell me about Quick Ship brands and about Early Upgrade.
[00:00:52] Speaker B: Yeah, and I think it's important to note how these two companies come together, because it's a question I get a lot. But I think if you look at the whole value chain for technology assets, I think we can all agree there are many different facets to it. And finding one company that can manage them all and manage them all, well, it doesn't exist, in my opinion.
So about two years ago, I became involved with Early Upgrade, which is a end of life recycle business. We specialize in kind of itad end of life equipment. Everything from a phone to a tablet to a PC to a server, you name it, we are a recycle company and we've been doing that for around 15 years. So I joined three existing partners, Simon, Michael and Rodell, who've all had their own specialty in recycling over that 15 year period. Simon specializes in phones. Mike's got a specialism in phones, tablets, laptops. Rodell specializes in accessories. And pulling together all the expertise has enabled us to build a full stack recycler.
And we went from, or should I say the guys, where I can't take any credit for where They've come over 15 years, but the guys went from literally selling a handful of used cell phones to a place where we're now processing 2 million pieces of electronic equipment every month.
So working together with the guys, super excited about where that business is going. But that's end of life.
When I look at the front end of the value chain and you look at products that are kind of like this iPhone 15, right. Two or three years in age, kind of reaching the first end of use cycle whereby someone's going to trade it in, but another consumer wants to reuse it for another three or four years, there's a huge void there that we still need to fill prior to any end of life processing. Because when it comes to managing value chains. For me it's all about life cycle maximization. It's not about moving this to retirement just because I'm done with it. As the first user, we want to make sure we're reselling it, recirculating it and doing everything we can before it reaches end of life.
So Jordan Inslee, the founder of Quick Ship Brands, approached me a few years ago and we were talking about our vision for the secondary market, the things we like about it, the things we don't like, the opportunities that we see. And ever since then we formed a really strong bond. So I had the opportunity to get involved with the business as a partner at the back end of last year. I took that opportunity and now I serve as president in this organization which is focused on taking return product and recirculating it, putting it back in the hands of other consumers.
Similar to early Upgrade. It's been around actually for 20 years next July.
So these are not startups by any means. They are mature businesses that have built a specialism. Quick Ship being in high value remarketing and early upgrade being in end of life and recycle. And in terms of my role with both, I lead the day to day in both companies.
And that might sound like a lot, but when you put it in the context of the technology value chain, one company is serving on the front end, kind of end of use cycle remarketing space and the other is at end of life. So the two come together and play a beautiful role that is in perfect harmony and synergy because the things that come into Quick Ship that are at end of life go to early upgrade. The things that come into early upgrade that can be recirculated come into Quick Ship. So it's pulls together a complete value chain without compromising on subject matter expertise. And any one company that tries to do the end to end at some point in the value chain has got an element of compromise because like I said, the product value chain in this space is very, very complex. And each role in that value chain requires a specific set of skills. So that's how the two come together. And yeah, a very long winded answer to a simple question. So thanks for that one.
[00:04:34] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
Well Josh, I'm kind of curious as to how you know your background and how you found yourself in these two roles that are very complementary to each other. It sounds like it's broader than the electronics industry.
[00:04:49] Speaker B: It absolutely is. So I guess to take the first part of the question on my background, I guess going back to the very Start When I was 15, I did an internship with Ogilvie and Mather in marketing.
Didn't really know what I wanted to do, but thankfully, you know, I had some roots in there my aunt's husband brought me into, which was really good fun. Didn't know what. Again, 15 years old, you don't know what you're going to go into. But at the time they were working with a mobile phone OEM who was entering the market.
And although marketing turned out not to be the, the specific journey for me, I was really interested in what they were doing with that brand. I thought, you know, this is, this is neat. Anyway, I did that internship and then from there I went to work for a phone repair company called SBE.
And SBE were doing repairs for OEMs, for network operators, for retailers. They were the biggest in the UK and also had a presence throughout Europe and latterly in Canada. And I loved it. I was working there initially as an unpaid intern, and then I ended up coming back and working for them for three and a half years. And I had a great time, you know, and back then things were very different. Cause you weren't repairing a device like this. You know, I'm not that old, but devices look completely different at that time. And the repair processes and the commercials that were attributed to repair were completely different. But there is really where I found my footing and found what it is I wanted to do. Ill defined, right? But I knew what it was I wanted to do. It was something in the tech space.
And since then, to kind of summarize, you know, where I've been, I've worked for large insurance companies, I've worked in private equity, I've had a few of my own startups. And having gone through all that, I've now reached a point in my career where I want to be building something that is for myself and my partners. So Simon, Mike, Rodell, and then Jordan on the quick ship side, it's about building something that makes a difference in the space and that keeps me fully tuned into what it is we're focused on. Because I feel like over the years I've touched various different positions in that value chain, whether it's services, whether it's end of life, whether it's trading, insurance, you name it. And I feel like now it's about applying that rounded experience to create something new that really caters us to our need. Because you look at the amount of technology assets that are sold every year, we're talking billions and billions of devices.
And we are so far from optimized in terms of their use cycles and end of life processing. And that's what I'm looking to bring together here with my partners is to do something strategic that is for the greater good of the industry.
[00:07:14] Speaker A: Well, it sounds like the experience in marketing and then in the tech industry right next to each other that kind of contributed and made, you know, made you think about the combination of those two. That's a big part of the secondary market for devices is thinking about how these devices and how these, even the peripherals and the accessories are marketed. So that's maybe a fortuitous journey for you to where you are today.
[00:07:44] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think going back to the start, sustainability wasn't in the proposition. It was all about here's the latest and greatest device, you want it. As a consumer and we saw sales of new product doing that year over year. Everyone wanted to re up their device every year they wanted the new shiny object. And over a 15 year period we've transitioned away from that where people are saying hang on, number one, there's chips and raw material shortages, how are we going to find more? Two, you know, actually with software updates and things, I don't need to change my device every year, I don't need to change it every two or three. I can hang on to this thing for five years, years and it's still great.
So I think consumer behavior, brand behavior, marketing, messaging, all of that has evolved so much over a 15 year period and it's going to continue to do that because those material shortages are only getting greater. These things are a little gold or platinum mine in their own right. There's so much we can extract from existing devices or devices that are no longer in use that can be applied to create more great products. So we are very much looking ahead to the future of our industry and trying to figure out these hearts problems that make us all more sustainable.
[00:08:54] Speaker A: So how did you get introduced to App Kudo and how did you decide to become part of the powered by app Kudo ecosystem?
[00:09:03] Speaker B: I've known, you know of AppKudo, been familiar with App Kudo for best part of a decade. But I really got to know Josh maybe four or five years ago and I loved the notion of what appkudo was doing in terms of eliminating subjectivity in the secondary market because we've all seen manual grading and you could be the best grader of products in the world. But if you're looking at 200 different items a day, there's going to be variance in what you're doing and I like the way that the company was focused on bringing a uniform, unsubjective angle into that, that grading standard. We were using app Kudo and one of my former companies and, and again, the machine and what it did, it didn't matter who you brought into the building, it caught their eye and people understood what it was there to do. That was the rsa, in this case the fully automated line. And from that moment on, I've seen how this has such a play in the secondary market, because if you look at the market for used phones, for example, now I've used this now about 10 times already, but consumers are returning those items at a high rate because they'll go onto a marketplace, they'll see typically a stock image of a product that will be this product in perfect condition as a new item and then they'll receive something that's graded as used and it'll have a scratch here, a scratch there, you know, it won't be perfect and that's driving a high amount of returns in the secondary space. Whereas if you look at what App Kudo has done in terms of making grading part of a robotic process where you haven't got a human being looking at things thinking, ah, you know, I'll call this good, or I'll call this excellent or whatever because it's non subjective, it allows you to sell an item for what it is and therefore the consumer's left completely satisfied by their open box experience.
And when it comes to returns, you're absolutely crushing it because consumers know what to expect. You still get the odd device back because unfortunately we still have rife fraud practices that happen in the secondary space and things like that. But by categorizing items correctly, you set yourself on very strong foundations to sell products for what they are and optimize your backend operation in the process.
[00:11:10] Speaker A: And I think that what is evident to me in the conversations I have with folks in this industry is you mentioned sort of the evolution of the industry and it's become more and more sophisticated as more capabilities and consumers are, and insurers are part of this too, are pushing for more specificity, more granularity and more assurances that what they think they're going to get is what they're going to get and it's going to, and it's going to perform and it's going to last as long as they expect it to.
So when you, you brought up sort of the, the photo right, of a stock image versus then what they, they get, that makes me want to ask you a little bit about Device Passport and where you see the opportunities in this evolution of sophistication of specificity down to the actual device and not a stock image that the Device Passport allows us to take.
[00:12:15] Speaker B: Consumers, I'm going to say something which is completely contradictory. People want specific, they want more specifics around a product, but they want it served up in a really simple way.
And I think when we talk about an item as people who work in the space, we get into all sorts of levels of details around grading conditions, all this type of stuff.
Consumers don't want to see that. Consumers want to know, right, I'm going to get this device, it's going to have an imperfection in the top right corner. This is what it looks like. But I'm happy to kind of grin and bear that because the device is fit for my use case. And I think sometimes what we do, we take the complex narrative that we in the industry work to and try and push that in a consumer environment, and we end up confusing the heck out of people. And that's why from one seller to the next, you've got different product descriptions. So consumers don't know what a fair comparison is. And then you end up with returns, customer dissatisfaction, and all of the above. So I think with the technology that app Kudo, quick ship, early upgrade that we all bring to the table, we can leverage that to create a more uniform way of grading. But ultimately, what we've got to work on as an industry is standardizing what we're grading to, because consumers don't want to see a 1, a 2, a 3, a 4. They want to know, right, this is a used device, it's in acceptable condition, meaning it's got scratches a few lines down the back, down the front, whatever it may be. But they're buying an imperfect used product and they're getting a saving versus new for doing that. But as long as people have been truthful about what it is they're selling and they're communicating clearly about what that condition means in the eyes of a consumer, then we start to build an ecosystem of trust and longevity inject into that device Passport from app Kudo. That is a way of standardizing sales and descriptions in that secondary market that everyone can adopt.
And I think that's really important because I mean, just look on ebay, Amazon, Walmart, Best Buy, all these marketplaces, you'll see sellers who have got different ways of selling product, different descriptions. Some descriptions are two sentences long, others are two pages long. Some contain information about internal Serials within the device, some contain information about device performance, battery health, cycle counts. There's no consistency. And I think if consumers are able to look at one thing that says this is what a device is, this is what condition it's in, and then compare it to another, they can then make fair and informed decisions about what it is they need and what they're going to purchase.
So I think Passport has a huge role to play in organizing the secondary market, which still to this day people always tell me, you know, it's an organized secondary market. It's not.
Again, you look at one listing next to another, you'll see differences right off the bat. So there's a need for standardization and simplification whilst making. Making sure we're staying true to what it is we're selling.
[00:15:10] Speaker A: Yeah, so the standardization and simplification is very important both for the consumer, but also for those that are in the value chain in the secondary market that want more specificity, less.
I mean, they need simplicity in that it's standardized and that makes it, you know, simple. But all of those details that consumers don't care about, folks in the industry, before it gets to that second secondary consumer, they care about that. So helping those folks in the ecosystem throughout that value chain communicate clearly and build trust with each other in that when it's moving around from first use between there and the second user, there's a lot of activity that can go on, a lot of players can be involved and they need the specificity. Would you say that's a fair assessment of.
[00:16:04] Speaker B: Yeah, I think, you know, when you're in an industry and playing a role as experts, which a lot of us try and be, we can understand, like there's a degree of tolerance and like we apply certain levels of specifics that consumers shouldn't have to care about. But it matters to us as industry experts. Right. But again, we shouldn't be pushing that burden onto consumers. Those specifics like we can worry about. But let's keep things simple for the consumer. And a good example of how quick Ship brands and app Kudo have collaborated is bringing that level of specificacy to consumer markets and by bringing transparency and trust. Because if you look at the way that we list products on marketplaces as quick ship, we pride ourselves on selling items for what they are. So if an item's got a scratch on it or if it's, you know, got a chip or whatever it may be, we'll disclose that and we'll show the consumer an image of the actual product that they're bidding on or buying.
So when they receive it, there's no shock factor. And then within our listings, we're embedding the Device passport from AppKudo that lists out all the specifics about the product. So not only have you got images of the actual product that you're buying, you've got a full history of that item so you can see what condition it's in, where it originated. It essentially becomes a Carfax for your device.
And combining the Passport with the images and the way we list as Quick Ship has developed trust, we've got a hell of a lot of repeat buyers who come back to us for more and more products because they know that what they've received from us in the past has been sold as described.
And that's really important. So I think the biggest thing I would say about Device Passport is it brings consistency and with consistency you can build trust, which is what is lacking in many areas of the secondary market today.
[00:17:50] Speaker A: So as this industry evolves and Device Passport becomes more of that standard tool that folks are using and going into different levels of depth in terms of the total data that's available for a device, what do you think is going to be something that folks in the powered by App Kudo ecosystem are going to need to be focused on?
[00:18:19] Speaker B: I think there's a lot of things you need to think about when you process in a device.
Number one is, and this for me is priority number one in every instance. It's number one safeguarding consumer data. That should be the first thing that's on top of everyone's agenda when any used product comes into a building. Making sure that whatever data is on it is securely erased and can never be recreated. So first and foremost, that should be high on the well, number one on the agenda, as I say.
Secondly, you've then got to make sure that you're properly classifying product to ensure that you can place it in the channel that allows, allows you to maximize net recovery and maximize the useful life of the item for what it is.
So in order to do that, you need very clear testing protocols, which shouldn't be done via manual tests. It should be done via tried and trusted solutions that are benchmarking, you know, tests according to what industry standards are. So I know, for example, with App Kudo for flip and fold devices, you have technologies where you can actually hear the sound of a device opening and that tells you whether that device conforms to a manufacturer refurbished standard.
Like that's the level of intricacy that we're now getting into in the secondary market. So when people are looking at functional tests, it's no longer having an operator doing a few things on the phone and doing tick boxes based on how they interpret performance. We're moving it away from that subjective reporting to an automated test criteria that is benchmarked to industry standard.
Then you get onto grading and you know, we've all seen grading documents that are that thick that tell you how to grade a product. Again, we need to make it simpler. Is the device free from scratches, yes or no? Where are the scratches on the device? If it is scratched, let's capture an image of it, let's show where that scratch exists and the extent of it. On the grading side we need simplicity, whereas perhaps on the test side we need a little bit more depth to how we're testing products.
Because if you look at it now, it's all over the place. You've got people that are doing manual subjective tests to no particular script and then you've got others using technology like App Kudo which is doing a 96 or 100 point test, whatever it may be, which is all non subjective.
So I think what we need is a bit of parity and it's a balance between not complexity but being thorough and how you serve the results of that thorough test and grade practices up to a consumer in a way that they can understand it.
[00:20:41] Speaker A: Absolutely. Yep, that makes a lot of sense. And being able to, like you said, that building the trust is the critical part, not just to the end consumer, that secondary market consumer, but for everybody in the value chain along the way.
[00:20:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean we know that the secondary market, on a wholesale side of things, there's countless RMAs that go on. For every load of product you send out, you're going to get something back in most cases because there's variance. You know, if I sell a lot of Samsung devices all the same SKU and I'm selling them as grade C, you're going to have some grade C product that looks great and you're going to have some at the lower end of grade C that isn't cracked but has got real heavy signs of use. And we live in an industry where people like to cherry pick, so they really like the good stuff but the bad stuff they want to send back. And I think if we're correctly categorizing things in that wholesale market, again bringing an element of organization to it, we can drive down RMA's and again level set on expectation that there is a range to how we're describing products in that secondary space and there's got to be a degree of tolerance for them.
[00:21:47] Speaker A: Coming up in 2026.
What gets you excited about this partnership in the Powered by App Kudo ecosystem?
[00:21:57] Speaker B: I think there's a couple of things. I think, as I was saying before, between Quickship and App Kudo, we can really start to bring clarity and consistency to how used products are being sold.
We're opening our brand new facility in Glendale, Arizona in the early part of next year. And that's going to be, you know, a facility that is full of automation and full of technology that ensures that subjectivity has been eliminated wherever possible. That's something I'm really excited about.
On the other side of the industry, when you get to end of life, this is an area where I feel Appkudo, an early upgrade can play a real pivotal role.
Because if you look at end of life practices today, number one, we're discarding products that simply shouldn't be discarded. They've still got useful life within them and we've got to push them back up the chain and stop them going to recycle early. We've also got to change the perception of what data security means and how data sanitization can be conducted because you've still got countless organizations out there, particularly corporations who deploy equipment for employees, who believe the only way to destroy data from data bearing products is to destroy the product, which is just not the case. And it doesn't even have to be App Kudo. I mean, we'd all like it to be, but there are other wipe based solutions out there that allow you to sanitize a product without ever taking it apart. And we need to make sure that people are aware of those practices and they're aware what those practices mean in terms of industry standards to prevent us discarding products early at the same time at end of life when things do need to be destroyed. You know, when you have a product that's non functional, people need reliability when it comes to how they're destroying product. Because, you know, I've been to shred facilities where I've seen people dropping whole units into shredders and it's coming out in chunks that are that big. Well, if anyone's ever seen the chips that are within devices these days, sometimes the chips are that big. So I've seen countless examples and I've actually run tests where I've sent devices away for shredding and I've had the material sent back to me and I've been able to extract data from the shred Output, that's not a reliable means of destroying devices. People need something they can trust. And as early upgrade, we developed a piece of ip, a robotic tool called the Databot, which is a targeted physical destruction device. And the way it works, it's a tabletop unit. You place a device within it, and the bot is programmed to drill through precisely where the data bearing components are within a device and reduce them down to dust in the process.
And the beauty about that is going back to the shred argument, where you've got people dropping whole devices in a shredder. When you use the Databot, the only thing that you damage in the process is the rear housing of a device and the memory bearing chips. We leave every other element of the device intact so that we can harvest components, harvest raw materials so that they can be reintroduced into the supply chain.
So we're minimizing waste and at the same time optimizing data security.
And then add to that the way that we audit things with the Databot, whenever a product is drilled by the Databot, we capture either a still image or a video of that product being destroyed. And that image is date stamped, it's serialized. So again, people have got hard evidence that this product was drilled on this date by this operator at this location. It was destroyed. So we're bringing a level of auditability which I think is a huge differentiator at that true end of life for status in the device lifecycle. And together with Appkudo, we're making that technology available to people who are leveraging Appcudo equipment. For people who are leveraging any device at end of life, we're giving them a sustainable and secure means of destroying products. So again, kind of recapping on all of that, I think between Quick Ship and Appkudo, we're redefining how products should be sold in the organized marketplace domain by bringing standards and continuity to the table. And at the end of life position, together with early upgrade, we're bringing secure, repeatable, auditable and solutions that ultimately allow you to maximize recovery to the table. And they're two very, very important problems that are massive that have existed in this industry since the dawn of time that we're working collectively to address.
[00:26:04] Speaker A: Every time I hear you talk about the Databot and how it has really revolutionized the way we think about data destruction, it just makes so much sense. And I think about all of the myriad components and parts that are in a mobile device and the camera lenses, the screens, if they're in good condition, the charge ports, the microphones, speakers, all those things when they're put through a shredder, you can't do anything with those. Right? There's nothing recoverable from a parts perspective. When Databot drills that little tiny hole in the perfect location, you have all those other parts that can be harvested.
So I think one of the things I think about is, from my perspective in sustainability, is how much more that feeds the circular economy for device repair. You're basically creating a supply of these parts that can be utilized for repair.
So my question for you is, with that improvement in, you know, the salvageable materials and parts, how does the design for these devices, is it able to be responsive to that ability to harvest those parts? What limitations, now that you've eliminated one barrier for access to these parts, what other barriers maybe have shown up or limitations have shown up that you feel a broader part of the industry needs to respond to?
[00:27:49] Speaker B: Well, it's how you actually take those end of life devices and make them back into useful raw materials. Because you've got smelting.
Smelting is a very dirty process, right? I know that it allows us to extract metals at a high yield, but it is a dirty process.
And then on the other end of the spectrum, you've got hydrometallergy, which is a chemical based process that allows you to extract raw metals from boards and components. But it's a very expensive process to run. So what we've got to do is try and find a way of, you know, leveraging the best of both, but doing it in a clean way. The biggest challenge, so without doubt that exists, is how you turn those end of life products back into useful material, because there are ways to do it, but neither today is perfect. And it needs a lot of optimization, which takes time, takes money, takes research.
But I'm pleased to see that there are a number of players in this space that are putting that time in and they're finding solutions for this because let's face it, we have to. We don't have an infinite amount of material to keep making new products.
And as I said, you can stack up devices and it becomes a source of raw material for us to use.
But again, the methods we use to extract that material do need a bit of work.
[00:29:00] Speaker A: Yeah, well, that has to surely lead into design as well.
From the manufacturer's standpoint, how can manufacturers utilize this knowledge of, except for that tiny hole, everything else that's in there could be used.
If it's able to be disassembled in a way that preserves its functionality. Do you have hope in that space, yeah.
[00:29:29] Speaker B: We need to make devices more modular without question. I mean, I don't know if you're aware of, like the fairphone, but like, it's a modular device. Taking it apart is really easy. I don't profess to be a technical person, I'm not. But I can take that device apart without breaking things.
And that's the way that we need to be thinking about sustainable design in future products. You know, we need to be able to take them apart, take out components in a format that it can be reused versus having to take it apart, break things, remove components.
We've made it very complicated because, you know, these are sophisticated devices and to put that together in a modular format is probably quite challenging. But I think we've solved harder problems in the world and I think it's something we need to put a bit more time and effort into. Let's make it so removing parts. And I'm not just talking about big parts like screens and cameras. I'm talking about the small components on boards. We need to make them more easily extractable, which again, is far beyond my technical understanding. But I know there's far smarter people out there than me who have ways and means of doing these things.
[00:30:29] Speaker A: And as you said, we've got all kinds of problems that we can solve. And I would even posit that we can choose which problem we want to solve. Right. We can choose to deal with the problem of scarcity of these materials and the environmental damage that it's doing to get to them, let alone the social and political ramifications of that. Or we can choose to rethink design.
And I think there's a better choice there between those pretty obviously.
[00:31:03] Speaker B: Well, the two challenges that I'm really focused on is making sure that we're maximizing the useful life of products by pushing them through reuse for as long as is feasibly possible.
And then when it does come to end of life and making sure that data is securely destroyed beyond recovery and that products are then downstream so that the useful materials within them can be reused. And they're two very big problems. One's been solved within quick ship in terms of remarketing. The other's been solved in early upgrade at end of life. But they're the two things I'm focused on because it's what I feel I can influence when it comes to design and manufacturing. We need even more collaboration with OEMs design teams and factor into that consumer input for what people want so that we can start to think about how we piece these things together and what we're going to do with them when they're no longer in use. Because everyone gravitates towards consumer need. Our consumers want the best cameras, consumers want the best screens.
Yeah, but at what cost? And what do we do with these things when they're no longer in use? Can we reuse them? How do we reuse them? How easy is it to extract the useful material from these things? And these are hard questions that we need to be asking every time a product's developed.
And frankly, if we're going to create a product that has no reuse credentials, should it ever hit the market? I would say no. And I think there are products out there today that we could all find where we look at it and say, hang on, this product's going to be obsolete in two years. Someone's going to throw it in a drawer and it's never going to see the light of day again. Again, should it be hit in the market, is there a better way to do it? And I just think we need to be challenging ourselves a bit more on that front because we're creating complex problems by not addressing it at source.
[00:32:44] Speaker A: Yeah, especially when we can anticipate that, you know, as being, you know, today's product is tomorrow's waste if not done properly.
[00:32:54] Speaker B: Look how many unused devices are lying dormant in homes. We're not talking about one or two. We're talking like 15, 20, 25.
It's scary. And in all of those products collectively, you've probably got 48 or 49 elements that you can find in the periodic table. These are things that we have to extract because we don't have infinite amounts of these things.
So I just think we just need to be putting sustainability at the front of what we're doing. And we need to educate people on what represent the right use cycle according to their needs, because every consumer is different. And one thing I do like that I've seen various OEMs do recently is have these comparison documents at the point of sale where people are inputting what their usage is going to look like, and it tells them what product they need in accordance with that. I like that because it's very easy for everyone to see the shiny new object come out and go, I want that. But truth be told, they probably don't have a need for it.
Like, my last laptop, for example, had a MacBook for six years and I hammered my computer every single day and there was nothing wrong with it after six years. Yet there are folks who upgrade every year because they have a perception that they need to. Whereas actually, if you calculate the use case and what you need, you could save money and you can help promote a more sustainable life cycle for your products at the same time. So it's something I think all of us as human beings have to think about. Not just OEMs, not just retailers, distributors. We've all got to be responsible in thinking about what it is we need and how that translates to the products that we buy.
[00:34:30] Speaker A: Well, this has been really great, Josh. I really appreciate you taking the time to chat with me today. Before we wrap up, I want to give you a chance to share anything else that we haven't talked about that you want to share with the audience.
[00:34:42] Speaker B: I think, like I mentioned that we're going into this new building as quick ship that we're really excited about.
We're working on some things as early upgrade in terms of standards in the industry, which I think are really, really important. And that will come to fruition in the coming weeks. I can't say too much about it now, but I guess just homing in on that, we've got standards in our industry that originated 40 plus years ago. And yeah, they've evolved over time. They originated 40 years ago and we've all seen the rate at which technology's advanced in the last year alone, let alone the last decade. And I think when it comes to the standards we are benchmarking ourselves to, the standards need to move at the same pace.
And that's why we're working with industry bodies and collaborating with peers in the industry as early upgrade to define what some of those end of life standards are. Because I think we're at an inflection point where it's time for us to all come together and make positive change.
Because the practices that we'd have all adhered to three years ago are now out the window, is totally different.
Yet the literature that we're using to benchmark what good looks like is just iterations of prior versions. Whereas I feel like now it's the time to really hit reset and redefine what best practice is. And then the continued evolution needs to be happening every month. You know, not once every one, two or three years. When the next iteration of a standard comes out, these standards need to move at the same rate as the evolution of the tech that we're handling.
And that's something that I feel we're really helping to shape up as early upgrade. And of course I'll be very transparent, I'll be the first to Say we all want to make money in this space, that's what we're here for. But at the same time, we're all about collaboration and making a difference because the future of not only our industry, but the future of humanity, I feel, is dependent on it. So I feel there's a higher purpose to what we're doing. And yeah, like I say, some of the work we're doing around standards and processes and best in class solutions will come to fruition in the next few weeks. And I'm certainly excited for that.
[00:36:47] Speaker A: Awesome. Well, I agree we all are here for a higher purpose because of the inherent nature of what we do with maximizing the value of these secondary devices is to really protect the planet and to protect the resources that are within them and all of the energy it took to produce it and deliver it to market. So 100% agree. We all have a higher purpose behind our day to day. So I think that's a great place to end.
[00:37:16] Speaker B: You've reminded me of one other thing in saying that the way that we calculate our positive impact on sustainability at end of life is also something we need to think about. Because I don't just want us to all be going out there with token gestures saying, hey, you know, we've offset, you know, x amount of CO2 equivalent. I want us to be actually doing things that says this device was destined for landfill. Here's what we did with it to reuse the components within it. That's what we should be looking at. Not, you know, without going down a rabbit hole, carbon credits and things like that. We've got to look at the things we can actually do within our control to maximize reuse.
[00:37:53] Speaker A: That's really what we're measured on, right, is fewer new devices being needed to be manufactured because we're able to keep using what's already been manufactured at a high level of utility. So agreed? Yeah, agreed. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Josh. I really appreciate your time today and maybe we'll have to have you on the podcast again in the future sometime.
[00:38:19] Speaker B: I'd love to. Thank you for having me.
[00:38:21] Speaker A: Yeah, have a great one.
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